[ColorForth] Chuck and Browser philosophy

[Jeff Fox <fox@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

"Kurt B. Kaiser" wrote:

> for Colorforth??  Mumble. There's an impedance mismatch here....

But you missed my whole point.  Trying to match the
idea of colorForth to that IS a total impedance mismatch.
Absolutely.  The big mismatch in intellectually.
ColorForth really has zero to do with any of that.
ColorForth was and is the perfect match to what
it was intended for, Chuck's chips.  You put the
two together it makes sense.

You have a $2-internet-colorForth that can change
everything internally.  

To pull himself up by his bootstraps Mr. Moore
is temporarily using a rather personal cludge
on the horrible Pentium, as painful as that
is for Chuck, but it shows what he wants
and were he wants to go.

Look closely and you see the idea.  If the
ideas you see is that this is Chuck's
personal language implemention for a Pentium
and that if you apply the idea on top of
Windows or Linux then you will be doing the
same thing Chuck is doing but that it is
obvious that Chuck's approach has all these
flaws, and problems that make it nearly
impossible.

It is nearly impossible and won't work.
Chuck's approach isn't a personal system.
Chuck's approach isn't intended for Pentium. 
Chuck's approach can't mate to Windows or Linux
the whole idea from the beginning is to avoid
and replace all that.

So while by Chuck's definition of the concept
of colorForth vs other Forths you could
do a personal Pentium colorForth for an 
antithesis OS and call it colorForth IMHO
if this is your target your idea is almost
exactly the opposite of Chuck's.  You
think you are seeing what Chuck is doing
and that you are doing the same thing.
You are both using the word colorForth
for instance.

But unless you feel that touching the Penitum
in the first place is terribly distasteful,
but not as distastful as touching Windows
or Linux and feel so passionate about that
that you are willing to risk everything that
you have done for 40 years on trying to do
something else then you are seeing ColorForth
and doing what Chuck is doing.

If you are using colorForth the way Chuck is
it is presently just a temporary phase required
for CAD, to make chips, to complete the picture
to get to the real colorForth.  If your goal
is a $2-internet-colorForth computer and
operating system that is the anti-thesis
of "personal" software, and the anti-thesis
of things like Linux your not doing what
Chuck is doing and are missing the message
almost everything.

Until you picture how every detail of the
$2-internet-colorForth computer and OS
will work, it is hard to see that it is
the anti-thesis of personal software
or things like Unix.  If that isn't your
image IMHO you may have only a very
surface understanding of the concepts
or possibly have most of it backwards.
Not "you" personally, anyone.
 
> I wouldn't toss TC/IP, 

Not even to replace it with something significantly
better if doing so opened the door to get
100,000% improvement in some other things?

My whole point was most people will not even
consider ideas like that so they just will
never be able to get more than 10% of Chuck's
ideas.  His ideas are so compact and succinct
that if you remove about 1% most of the other
99% becomes broken.  There is no fat to
remove, you are removing vital parts.

Chuck's approach is about removing the fat
from things that are mostly fat and making
them with no fat and only essential parts.
So people who remove essential parts from
what Chuck made, all they have is a broken
toy, and the parts can't fit into anything
else.

> you don't want to build your own Internet :) But most
> everything else could go, in principle.

You may not want to.  Chuck does.  I do.  5.9 billion
other people would like to see it done.  I suppose the 
100 million who use the present would be split
between those wanting to replace it with a better
version and those who would resist change.  And
there would be almost none who would ever consider
doing it themselves.  

For Chuck I say why not?  If your $2-internet-colorForth 
can generate a better internet give it a try.
 
> Did you see the communal computers being used in India? 
> About the size of a large PDA. A town owns one, and each 
> user has a plug in card containing his
> configuration and data. Different paradigms!

Yeah, closer to Chuck's idea.  Chuck just wants the
PDA to have a $2-internet-colorforth to get orders
of magnitude more performance and lower cost so
everything can be more efficient.  What you describe
sounds a little like other technologies 100 years
ago.

> "After we came out of the church, we stood talking for some time
> together of Bishop Berkeley's ingenious sophistry to prove the non-
> existence of matter, 

I saw Bishop Berkeley at the how Berkeley can you be
festival this year.  What a funny, silly and charming
lunny!  We all had a lot of fun watching the lunny
try to entertain everyone, he did too, a real clown.

I don't know where you saw him or what church you
attended before you ran into him.  What church do
you belong to?  Where did you see our wonderful
Bishop Berkeley clown?  Do you live in Berkeley?

I only saw him in a parade.  Does he also do
some kind of stand-up comedy routine regarding
metaphysics and quantum mechanics.  I suppose
Berkeley is one of the few places where there
are enough educated people to get a comedy
routine that requires understanding 100 year
science.  Most Americans wouldn't get it.
I would enjoy that.  Where can I go to
see our town's second most famous clown
do this standup routine?

> and that every thing in the universe is merely
> ideal.  I observed, that though we are satisfied 
> his doctrine is not true, it is impossible to refute it.  

He invites the audience to participate in the
show in a debate format.  Very odd, I have a 
hard time picturing it.

> I never shall forget the
> alacrity with which Johnson answered, striking his foot 
> with mighty force against a large stone, till he rebounded 
> from it, 'I refute it THUS.' "  -- Boswell's Life of Johnson

It is a comedy team?  Sounds good.
 
> "We all agree that your idea is crazy; the question is, 
> is it crazy enough to be right?"  -- One quantum physicist 
> to another

;-)  That's funny.

Best wishes,
Jeff Fox
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