Re: [colorforth] Hello - and where to begin?

["Ray St. Marie" <ray.stmarie@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Jason,
Ray here:

My pleasure to make your acquaintance. I'll most likely pop in and out
of some newer copies of the recent colorforth mailing list mail you
just recently received over the course of the day, poking my two cents
in here and there. I'm hoping not to miss a subject that way.

First, I ( and obviously my good friends here ) welcome your interest
in colorforth. For whatever reason, many of us find it fascinating.

On Jan 18, 2008 4:54 AM, Jason Kemp <jason.kemp@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I have, at last, obtained an old laptop with a floppy drive that boots
> and saves colorForth.

Can you please elaborate on the machine that you acquired? I am also
interested in finding such a machine. I am planning a trip to Europe
this spring and would love to have a machine that I could rely on in
the event that I am called on to demonstrate colorforth.

> What is the state of colorForth now?

I see three states.
1_ IntellaSys House State.
     this is what Jeff Fox speaks about when he's talking about the
system developed and used at IntellaSys, obviously.
     I understand that this system is quite versatile, boots USB to
Windows and Linux as well as it's own OS.
     I assume it includes software to design, develop and test
products in current process at IntellaSys.

2_ IntellaSys Current Public Domain Release State.
     There are a couple versions of this: the current known as
colorforth '05 is archived with Tim Neitz amongst other places. It is
not considered usable in it's current state for many users, tho I do
recall Tim saying that he started and used the system. There is an
issue as to where the bytecode section after block 18 writes itself in
the memory image during boot. Also, omitted from this image is a
routine that translates the colors coded in the bytecode section using
24 bit encoding, into the 565 bits ( or 5 bits one color ( red) 6 bits
another ( what? green?) 5 bits last ( blue ).
      Josh Grams rewrote it, and and solved the problem where the
bytecoded section writes itself too deeply. I like Josh's re-write,
him having broken up the system into logical sections and all.
      We have never added the 565 routine, instead recoding the colors
on block 30 to 565 in hex in my copy only. ( I think Nick is either
using 565 or 24 but I don't know. If he's using the one from Josh then
he's got recoded colors on block 30 to compensate).
      Oh the reason for the 565 is that the vesa routine  selected
with the code 0x4117 requires the colors to be coded this way. I'm not
currently aware of the encoding for the 0x4118 vesa but if it is
different to 565 and will allow for the 24 bit representation, or if
it needs a translator routine as well, I think these translator
routines should be added so that byte code can return to shareable
condition.
       Bytecode should have the 24 bit color encryption to remain
compatible with previous systems. Well, only if you want to run your
code on previous systems, obviously, but you get my point. :-)

3_ Other and older PD releases.

> I know Mr Moore made it public
> domain so it's not centrally controlled, but as a newbie > it's difficult to find who has achieved or produced
> what, and where this has been
> shared.  It seems that a lot of  Web pages are derelict
> or gone -- the
> colorforth-info@ faq links return 404/403, the mail list
> archives
> mention a wiki that is no more, as well as many other
> useful looking
> avenues that have since disappeared.  Also the
> downloads from
> colorforth.com via ultratechnology.com don't work (or
> does one need an
> account?) so I can't get my hands on that source code
>  (I got color.com
> and put it on a dos floppy a while ago).
>
> Have I come to the party too late?  I do hope not!  It
> does feel as if
> I'm doing archaeology, though, in just trying to dig up
> the basics: not
> just colorForth but all Forth.  I've obtained some
> books but I had to
> get those second hand as they've not been published
> for a couple of
> decades!  I've spent some time delving into Pygmy but
>  being tied to DOS
> and real mode is too restrictive.  I don't want an
> operating system in
> the way; I want direct access to the hardware.  Forth is
> delicious and
> colorForth might just be the ticket.
>
> I would be deeply grateful for any advice on where to
> start.  Where is
> the accumulated knowledge?
>
> Also has anyone got anywhere with USB?
>
> Regards,
> Jason Kemp
>
>

3_ continued...

    Jason, It has always been my intention to provide a definitive
place for such colorforth information. In a way that you would expect
to find it, organized, categorized, cross-ref'd and in-depth. I still
have such intentions. I would ask that the community waiting for me to
continue, please have patience with me as I am currently undergoing
changes of a personal nature. I fully expect to 'be myself' again and
for the first time in many years, with-in the next few weeks.

I will share this. At one point, I thought that my interest in
colorforth was totally irrational and without merit. I even thought my
interest was due to a condition I am currently undergoing treatment
for.

I had it well explained to me by someone I respect in the forth
community. To put his experience in context, he had never tried the
system, but suffice it to say that he could read the code and well
understand the individual systems. He could also well elaborate how
these systems interrelated. His points were well made and not
incorrect. And yet I could not help my interest even after such a well
stated argument.

I have reversed my thinking yet again, and re-enter the community
refreshed. Irrational is the OS that requires the specifications of
last years machine just to run this years OS, requiring more machine
to do anything else but OS stuff.

I'm starting to think that colorforth is not for programmers, it's for
designers and explorers. Programmers like programming environments
that do the work for them and that's why programmers create such
systems for other programmers. Designers on the other hand, like it
when the thing they use to design something actually turns into that
something they are designing, in a form where you couldn't possibly
remove another piece and still get the functionality that is required
to solve the specific, as opposed to a general, problem.

Modeling clay for your machine/mind connection.

Chuck has left us with a framework. Any piece of which is suspect. All
the pieces together forming a unique whole.

I still say to that other forther that I respect so much, "You have
not used it, you don't know, and I can only tell you how to make love,
not how to feel it". :-) or things that equal that.

Once someone gets past the build of the system, obviously a hard thing
to ask an experience forther, if one were to start with the interface
and the paradigm and forget the encryption method ...

( which is quite replaceable and I've never found reason to... but
after all it is...or frankly any portion of the system is, we see
keyboards go from Chuck-vorak to qwerty all the time...)


... or the underlying system, and think about the way one solves
problems, and how one goes about reducing those solves into tighter
and more definitive factorings, using only the simplest of
constructions...

This is colorforth. The quicker picker upper.

-- 
Raymond St. Marie ii,

PS : Jason, these guys are great, and have been a wealth of colorforth
information and comradeship for many years. You want to know where all
the colorforth information is? It's in the archive of this chat, It's
in the minds of these people, It's on line daily on irc on the
Freenode servers at #c4th and #c4th-ot ( if you need help joining
these chats then I can help you directly at ray.stmarie AT gmail DOT
com) .
Soon it will all be up on the web. I'm disabled now, and I  soon will
have nothing but time.

I'm going to read over everyone else's respounces to you and  ad my
two cents worth as if I had a right. Sorry guys. :- )

ray

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: colorforth-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
For additional commands, e-mail: colorforth-help@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Main web page - http://www.colorforth.com