Re: MISC-d Digest V98 #16

[jfox@xxxxxxxx (Jeff Fox)]

Dear MISC Readers,

>From: rw20@cornell.edu
>
>Will there be a hacker's version that allows one to program the iTV box?  
>I'd buy one in a second for about $200-$300 just to have a nice platform 
>to experiment with a MISC chip.
>
>Anyone else interested?
>
>Russ

I am. 
That's what I've been doing since I don't have any working F21 yet.

At least the chess program is still primitive enough that I can
still beat it most of the time.  (that is primitive ;-)

I think iTV will encourage third party development by publishing
interfaces and specs but has no interest in kit stuff.  You may be
able to write your own system code, or application code, or script code
without too much hacking.  Of course if you just want to hack...

>Ok, I'm going to declare myself to be the founding member of the 
>unofficial iTV fan club.  This thing is great! So long as this 
>endeavor, and the VM Compatible games console come out this year, I 

Conditions for the founding member of the unofficial iTV fan club?

>will save $$$ and not have to fork out for a modern PC. If videogame 
>companies can have followings, then why not web browser companies.

It sounds like you need a PC.  I complain about em but I figure it
is ok because I have been playing with them for over 23 years.  They
are great toys.  About the only problem is they are still sort of
expensive and are a sort of kludgy mess of hardware and software. 

>I wonder if there ever will be an iTV cablemodem / games console tie 
>in?
>
>Personally, I don't think that the computer companies will have much 
>to worry about, as this device will carve its own niche. Except that 
>the WebTV box is headed for the closet.

iTV is aiming at a lower point on the dollar curve than WebTV or
a PC.  For people who want more features and higher quality they
can always move up on the curve.  You may be expecting too much
if you think of this appliance head to head with WebTV or a PC.

>Now I am reminded of something that I really wanted to convey.  I 
>really think that there should be a general purpose Forth plug in for 
>multiple computer platforms, a sort of Java peer competitor )
>but more stable, faster, stronger, richer, more-elegant. SwiftX runs   
>byte tokens on the Cashless transaction system in Europe. They are 
>both threaded interpreted languages. 
>
>So, if there ever is a WebForth product, then it would be keen to port 
>it to the web browser, because then even the poor people would be able 
>to use common-mini-apps ( runs on iTV, PC, Mac, Sun etc ). Also, its     
>already Forth, so it would take up MUCH less memory on this set-top-box 
>than Java. Such a WebForth may be able to be patched on top of the 
>current PEGASUS web browser, maybe. 

I like the idea of a Forth Script that can run very nicely on the web
and on any browser.  If cheap boxes make it popular then other users
would want it in their browsers.  I like the idea that such a thing
might be native in an iTV box and also portable to other browsers
via a published interface layer and spec to developers and an
open standard.

I think most MISC readers think that Java is not as nice as a
Forth Script would be.  At iTV we think Forth is better than Java
for web browser type stuff, smaller, cleaner, nicer.

>Actually, I'm going to buy a modern PC so I can try out Meme, 
>ProForth, Pygmy and something else. Maybe I'll be able to afford one 
>in about 6 months.
>
>Jason ( Warpstar ) Damisch

Meme is great.  I wish I had a Renderman(tm) graphics engine targeted
for MISC so I could add the network code and the object code and
make a compatible version right now.  It is a nice idea, a Forth
scripting language for shared virtual reality objects on the internet.

Michael Montvelishsky always likes to point out to me that you want
F21 for this kind of thing because the problem is embarrasingly parallel,
and a cheap (modular) SMP would be a great approach.  (excuse a little
shameless hype for cheap modular SMP.)

Jeff Fox     jfox@dnai.com    www.dnai.com/~jfox