[Fwd: Re: MISC-d Digest V98 #48]

["GARY B. LAWRENCE" <garyl@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

GARY B. LAWRENCE wrote:
> 
> MISC-d-request@pisa.rockefeller.edu wrote:
> >
> > Subject:
> >
> > MISC-d Digest                           Volume 98 : Issue 48
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >          News
> >
> >     ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Subject: News
> > Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 16:16:07 -0400
> > From: jfox@dnai.com (Jeff Fox)
> > To: MISC
> >
> > Dear MISC readers,
> >
> > The list has been pretty quiet but a lot of things have been
> > going on.  I don't think I have posted anything here since September.
> > I had shipped a few copies of the videos of Chuck and some copies
> > of the new simulator and emulator and demos from the Ultra Technology
> > online store.  I thought some people might make some comments on the
> > simulator or emulator or the demos that Stas and I did for them.
> 
>  I want to wish you luck and hope you get a working chip. I also wanted
> to mention that after buying the F21 EMULATOR I had trouble at first
> running it under WIN-95, it would crash until I checked my memory setup
> and found that it was not set for EMM. The documentation did mention
> using EMM memory, but you might want to put in a early message to have
> EMM memory setup. Other than that I had no trouble running the demos and
> even added a few lines of code to one to see if it changed the program.
>   It was impressive to see the display on the dos screen and it will
> help me understand code sequences. One that at first did not make since
> to me was the one DUP DUP -OR COM . It takes four forth words and does
> not need an out of page memory address and produces -1 for decrement
> of the count that was dupped. I will need some time to understand the
> tradeoffs between off page adressing and multiple program words that
> produce the same result faster. Old 8 bit processors like the 6502 did
> not have fast and slow memory cycles in ram because the processor did
> not outrun the memory.
> 
>  I wanted to add that after sending some email to Jeff about software
> I thought that would be needed, he responded that the P21 FORTH had most
>  of the things I had mentioned and could be setup for the F21 with out
> too many changes. I felt very foolish because I have a MUP21 with the
> P21 FORTH ! I have spent the last week or so looking over the manual and
> running a few simple words and it has most of the code I asked him
> about. Things like basic sreen editor words, multitasking , single and
> double math, dumps, basic assembler and block graphic words.
>    I would like to set up an F21 with a one hand keyboard and a small
> flash disk and it seems that the 500 or so words in the P21 FORTH would
>  make it possible to start with mutimedia smart card commands very
> quickly. I have not yet found the San Disk mutimedia cards in Denver
>  but the smart flash cards are in the range of 15 megabytes for $100.
> I may have to compress some of my database ( 40-50 megabytes ) but I
> know that the program scource can fit in about 300 - 600 screens. The
> multimedia cards were written about in the october issue of CIRCUIT
> CELLAR.
> 
>  For now I will try some work on the MUP21 and hope to buy an F21 board
> early next year. I have been trying to load source code from F-PC to my
> MUP21 board by redirecting the output of the fload word to the rs232
> port. I slowed each byte transmitted so that the MUP21 could display and
> load each character as it came. I then put in a carriage return word
> that is detected by the redirected fload word. When it is detected fload
>  sends a carriage return character and then pauses about 600
> milliseconds to allow the MUP21 FORTH time to load the code. I noticed
> that I needed to delay because the command given was a fill of a large
> area for graphics and the MUP21 missed the next command. I think that
>  I need to load from a file using xon/xoff protocol or to load the file
> straight to memory in the MUP21 and then have another word in the MUP21
>  load the scource similar to the way block screens are loaded.
>    If I am missing some words already there that do the same thing for
> me let me know. I also have trouble getting multiple files to load from
> one F-PC file. I would like to do that since I have used that method in
> both F-PC and WIN32FOR . My code sends multiple files out the serial
> line, but it also sends the names of these files out. I am using fload
> and my redirected fsend at different levels and I am not getting
> something redirected right. I will work on this since loading from files
>  or screens allows for good structuring of code.
> 
> > With no video being generated and running sequential
> > stack instructions in fast SRAM F21 can get a max of 222mips.  When
> > running in DRAM the max without video is 111.  With video being generated
> > and the CPU in DRAM the mips rate can drop to 20mips or lower.  This
> > means that the emulator running on a very fast PC will now execute at
> > close to the speed of a real F21 in DRAM and giving most of its bandwidth
> > to coprocessors.  This makes it more useful for debugging complex and
> > detailed programs.  It also makes it more suitable as a virtual machine
> > implementation for the five bit virtual machine Forth that we execute
> > in hardware on the MISC machines.  I have experimented a little with
> > using it as a helper in Netscape this way.
>   I wanted to know if operations running in static ram were affected
>  much the other processors. A difference between 20 mips and 222 mips
> would be enough to design inner loops to run in static ram if the video
> processor was being used. In my case I just want to take a database that
>  is growing to big for 640k F-PC and try the F21. My program is running
>  on a D2 66 486 so if it only runs at 20 mips I might be able to stand
> it ;) I started to put it in WIN32FOR and found out I needed to learn a
> lot about WIN95 api's just to get started. I like the idea of having one
> sheet with the wiring diagram, one small book for assembly code, and the
> P21 FORTH book. I have lots of old books on dos, pc assembly code, and
>  hardware and had to get 6-7 books on WIN95 just to start to understand
>  WIN32FOR and WIN95. IF some number of similar applications can be done
> with the F21 quicker than on a more complex platform, then others may
> beging to understand it's utility.
>     I think that Chuck may be right when he sees the future as having
> custom processorsand custom code for many applications. I see the
> complexity of the wintel system making it hard to change to meet the new
> ideas.
> 
> > I also understand that the Ultra Technology and DYOP web site URLs
> > are going to be listed in an upcoming article by Don Lancaster in
> > the Jan 99 issue of Electronics Now.  Unfortunately Don was given
> > www.dnai.com/~jfox   instead of www.UltraTechnology.com
> > I really wish people would use the registered domain name because
> > the site could always move from the original address and it is
> > easier for people to remember UltraTechnology.com than dnai.com/~jfox
> > which ultimately may have nothing to do with Ultra Technology, who knows.
> >
> > Oh well.  So much for the news report.  Wish me luck with getting
> > the chips back and packaged and paid for and tested and working and
> > to do the right demos to impress the right people.  Is that too much
> > to ask for?
> >
> > Jeff Fox
> > Ultra Technology
>  Let me again wish Jeff luck in getting a working F21D chip and let me
>  recommend the videos that show Chuck discussing his chips, they help
>  to explain how he thinks and give some explanation for why he strives
>  for a simpler hardware and software solution.
>         Gary Lawrence