Re: F21D CHIP
- To: MISC, garyl@xxxxxxxxxxx
- Subject: Re: F21D CHIP
- From: "GARY B. LAWRENCE" <garyl@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 20:52:09 -0700
- References: <36944006.1C12@nvmedia.com>
- Reply-To: garyl@xxxxxxxxxxx
GARY B. LAWRENCE wrote:
>
> I have been fairly busy and didn't see the status report that Jeff Fox
> has tested the boot up rom and dynamic ram operation of the F21D chip.
> I am glad to see that the chip is working and hope to hear that the
> video and I/O portions check out ok too. I have a few questions for Jeff
> about the new chip. I read the new article on Chuck's color forth and
> was worried at the time that the F21D would have the same problem with
> transistors overheating. It was sad to hear from Jeff that the F21D has
> the same problem and that the chip needs to use nops to keep the main
> transistors cool enough to run well.
> Questions for Jeff
> 1. Will you spend time figuring out which combination of opcodes will
> work together?
>
> 2. If the rest of the chip tests good, do you think Chuck can
> solve the temperature problem just by increasing the size of a few
> of the transistors in the next mask?
>
> 3. What affect would larger transistors have on the speed of the chip?
>
> 4. Will you try to fix up an assembler for this F21D to insert three
> nops between each consecutive opcode?
>
> 5. If Chuck thinks he can solve the temperature problem with larger
> transistors, will you try to get a new mask done fairly quickly?
> I am assuming that he will know the answer about using
> larger transistors from the status of a new ITV mask run. I
> realize that you can not comment on ITV chips but I am hoping that
> Chuck will be able to prove that he now understands how to model the process
> correctly as he mentioned as possible in the color Forth article.
>
> 6. Will you compile a new p21 style forth for this chip? I could
> see it working much faster than the one on the Mup21 even if
> three out of every four opcodes are nops because of the larger
> stacks and faster speed.
>
> 7. Will the F21D chip be able to do a non jitter display even
> when the main processor is working in a high level Forth?
>
> 8. What voltage ranges does the F21D work at?
>
> 9. Does it slow down in a linear fashion if the voltage is reduced?
>
> 10. How accurate is the real time clock circuit?
>
> 11. In your article " Low Fat Computing " you mentioned that a GUI
> could be done in about 1K. Could you describe what features you
> have in such a GUI and how you got it so small. In Windows
> 95 each shortcut icon has a 90 byte file so that 12 icons
> alone take up 1K, but nobody ever said Windows was meant to be small.
>
> 12. You also mentioned in the low fat article that Chuck
> thinks about how he is going code alot before he writes any
> code. I would like to know if there are any books that help
> in doing code
> in this manner? I have read " Thinking Forth" and then went back
> to redesign part of a database program. I thought about the data
> structure quite a bit and then redesigned it. I produced code
that was a partial win, the stuctures were easier to follow
when
> looking for a particular field, but I incorporated the
> actions used upon the fields into a complex execution array
> which had to be set to a particular "state" in many places and it
> was not apparent which " state" was set when looking at the field
> code.
> I did remember a tip in Thinking Forth that Chuck had made about
> sometimes using more words and letting the Forth dictionary
determine the "condition" by compiling the right word.
> When I redo my field code, I will return to a separate field word
> for each action and remove the "State" words. The point that I am
> trying to make is that it seems that having alot of good
> tips from a book like Thinking Forth is not enough, that considerable
> experience is needed to know which particular tool to use in
> the situation at hand. One book mentioned to me by friends who
> use C was Code Complete. I got this book and found that so much of
> the book dealt with ideas on how to restructure scource code to
> make it easier to follow the basic logic. I was disappointed because
> a Forth program which is moderately well factored did not have
many of the problems mentioned. Most of what I gained from
the
book was an understanding of why even moderately small compiler
> programs can be harder to understand and debug than fairly well
> written Forth programs. It seems to be a case where the greater
> amount of so called natural language wording makes it harder not
> easier to understand the structure and logic of the program.
>
> 13. Is there any set of listings of code Chuck produced say 10,20 or
> 30 years ago I could read to try to understand how he evolved to this style of programming?
>
>
> I would like to close with an idea that I think the F21D would be
> able to do better than any current design. On the internet now
> people are setting up linux or unix servers to handle auctions
> using pearl script and one or more linked linux boxes. A similar
> internet product could be done with interlinked F21 chips.
> Since Pearl is working mostly in string arrays and not floating point
> math Forth string code could be used on a F21 at better speed and
> at much lower interconnect cost. Very large number of input
requests could be handled with much less processoroverhead since
> unix style processors are doing many background processes. I also
> think that a possible large scale game database could be set up on
the internet using a F21 network to hold the database and
interact
> within the database between each player and they are moved around
> the database "space". The best way I think to design such a game
> would be to have a graphic client running on pcs and to have only
> small amounts of position, status and graphic information sent over
the internet. The main advantages of the F21 design involve the
use
> of the simple parallel processing, the much lower cost of each node
> and the fact that a well written Forth code could be maintained and
> expanded with greater ease.
>
Since the last time I tryed to send this on 1/6/99 I have learned
that you
have had problems in the business and I hope you can get your
chips out and
sold to help with funding. I will try to send some money at least
for the
video on the Chuck's color forth in february.
With best wishes for a prosperous new year
Gary Lawrence