Re: MISC-d Digest V00 #20; Linux+Toas+Mips.
- To: kc5tja@xxxxxxxxxxx
- Subject: Re: MISC-d Digest V00 #20; Linux+Toas+Mips.
- From: "Wayne Morellini" <waynemm@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 14:53:14 EST
- Cc: misc
Sorry for the deay.
>From: "Samuel A. Falvo II" <kc5tja@armored.net>
>To: Wayne Morellini <waynemm@hotmail.com>
3602B-100000@dolphin.openprojects.net>
Now I remember, not Nintendo but the Dolphin Forth OS project, how is that
going? I never joined myself because I was interested in doing something a
bit (Aus speak) better than what Toas is now.
>
>To be more accurate, AmigaOS sits on top of TAOS, and uses Linux only as a
>market bootstrap. Future implementations will be hosted on native
>hardware, without Linux.
Yes this is exciting, you get a software market straight up. The 50 K of
virtual code for the Java machine that can be translated to native code by a
10K translator sounds good for a Misc p32. Instantly you can say to your
users that it does internet (itv) and Java, and has lots of programs
(potential). Pity that the PC partners have made it impossible to have a
Java platform independent internet, which makes life difficult for Itv type
companies. But the Toas virtual code system can work much faster on many
machines (but not Misc), and Toas outperforms Java in almost every technical
arena now. Also there is some form of pocket Linux being worked upon.
>
> > For the person looking at making a Mips based machine this would be an
> > excellent choice.
>
>Agreed -- a MIPS engine, especially with a native TAOS implementation,
>will offer the performance *punch* that has been missing from x86-based
>systems for a long time. So would a PowerPC engine, but frankly, neither
>IBM nor Motorola seem to be trying very hard to get those into the desktop
>arena.
>
Don't worry about the hardwaree side, a system can be rigged together it's
the software OS and building a software market that will cost the most, and
Toas/Linux gives an answer to this. The Toas OS requires miminal porting
efforts. What people don't realise is that Toas is made to maximise
performance of programs that can be directly loaded on any toas system
without porting despite the processor. All the PC Toas stuff will work on
mips and PowerPC, strong arm etc even if the OS for those systems haven't
been implemented yet (platform independence). As a future gaming standards
(and for some reason Sony has interest) you write once run the things on all
new processors. Sony have actually had a Linux developement system for the
Playstation 2 but rejected the use of it as too primitive technically among
consistent rumours of a new computer platform (non-PC).
From
www.amiga.com
Here are a few quotes from the site in the Amiga World section published
April. It is worth a look because Toas (and QNX) are good example of
Miminial full featured Virtual OS's. I have thought of doing one based on
Misc P2x code, but have over objectives, maybe somebody might like to try
it, a misc/stack based virtual OS suitable for most stack machines?
http://www.amiga.com/press/zine/4-17-00/AW5.htm
Important to Amiga's plans are the partnerships forged by Amiga with
TAO-Group, Sun, Red Hat, and Corel. With the growing number of Linux
distributions and their growing incompatibilities, Amiga will present
programmers with a common consumer layer to attract their support. The Ami
environment will significantly reduce deployment of applications and content
due to Amiga's partnerships and the integration of TAO's Elate software into
the Amiga environment.
The Amiga environment uses TAO's Elate as a foundation. A main feature of
Elate is its Virtual Processor (VP) programming model. Instead of concerning
itself with the hardware underneath, Elate uses massive abstraction that
presents the operating system with a dynamic list of services it will
provide based on the hardware below it. These services will then fulfill the
requests of the applications above it by arbitrating them. (Please see
'Inside The New Amiga' and 'Entering The AmiVerse' for more details).
Moss emphasized that with hardware being treated as a commodity--and citing
Be Inc.'s problems with providing drivers for even common items--it was more
important to provide programmers with a quick and flexible environment.
Because Amiga found a way to combine the best technologies within the Amiga
environment, flexibility is achieved. With TAO's Virtual Processor, a
programmer can truly compile once and run anywhere. The list of supported VP
interpreters includes X86, MIPS, PowerPC, ARM, StrongARM, MCore (Motorola's
new embedded CPU of choice), and a growing list of others.
To get programmers familiar with Virtual Processor programming as soon as
possible, Amiga announced the details of the soon to be release Developer
Reference Platform (DRP). Hosted on a special version of Red Hat Linux, the
machine will feature an AMD K6-II 500 MHz CPU, a GeForce Prophet 3D video
card, a Soundblaster compatible sound card, 64 megs of RAM, and TAO's Elate
software preloaded.
Some points on the DRP should be noted. First, Amiga chose to use less then
cutting edge hardware in the DRP to emphasize just how efficient their
environment will be. This also reduces the cost of each unit. Second, the
Ami environment will be preloaded on all Developer Reference Platforms. This
prevents pirating (Amiga will only support developer machines purchased
directly from them). Third, while the DRP is hosted on Linux and a X86
processor, Amiga consumer products will most often be run natively--not
hosted on another operating system--and therefore, will run much faster then
they do on the initial DRP.
A demonstration of the Beta Amiga environment was presented at the banquet.
The demonstration highlighted the systems capabilities by running several
Java Applets simultaneously at good speed. The systems
?????Look at this:
ease of coding was emphasized by demonstrating Doom and Quake which each
took less than an hour to port. Advanced video layer technology
?????
was also displayed by applying color filters over running demo programs and
by showing the ability to present non-square GUI objects. To demonstrate
this feature a Boing ball was manipulated through the transparent face of a
clock program running in front of the Boing balls. In spite of the fact that
the system took a performance hit by being hosted on top of Linux, the
demonstrations ran at impressive speeds.
http://www.amiga.com/press/zine/4-17-00/AW8.htm
Another part of the TAO suite is intent. (Yes, it's spelled all in lower
case). intent comes in two pieces; the JTE (Java Technology Edition) and the
intent Multimedia Toolkit. Quite simply, intent provides the best Java
engine anywhere. Java programs work under intent the way they were intended
to work; fast, very fast. At Amiga 2K the
?????
TAO environment was shown running Doom and Quake at the same time. In fact,
several Quake sessions were going at once. Then the demonstrator fired off
several utility programs as well. Nothing slowed down. Most impressive of
all, each of these programs was running in a separate Java session, and as
noted, each was blazingly fast.
?????
Perhaps even more amazing was the fact that the TAO products were executing
on top of Linux, so there was another entire OS level between them and the
hardware. The hardware was a powerful 500 MHz PC, but you'd certainly not
see this level of performance from a standard Windows machine. One secret of
the TAO speed is the modular way it handles Java. Only the pieces of code
needed to do the work at any given time are actually loaded into memory. As
a result, the computer can operate at efficiencies that can't be duplicated
by other implementations of a Java engine.
?????
It's also possible to eliminate the host operating system entirely. Linux
could be completely removed from the equation, and TAO could run directly on
the hardware in native mode. This alone would provide another significant
boost in speed and efficiencies, perhaps as much as 35% to 50%.
?????
This hardware independence, combined with the efficiencies of the TAO
software, also means just about any processor or computing platform can be
used. This is how it's possible to envision the Amiga environment running on
everything from cellular phones to the most powerful computing platforms
available. In fact, Sun has already demonstrated Java games running on
cellular phones using TAO. There's no reason why those phones couldn't carry
the Amiga logo of compatibility if desired.
See also:
http://www.amiga.com/press/zine/4-17-00/AW7.htm
For the Amiverse.
I am happy to see somebody finally implementing this sort of stuff.
Wayne.
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