Re: questions (about x21)

["Lloyd R. Prentice" <pai@xxxxxxxx>]

Hi Myron,

Myron Plichota wrote:

> One thing that has bothered me since joining the MISC list is the "all
> talk, no action" pattern that has developed re: fund-raising activities to
> finance the next fab run of F21. T-shirts were suggested but have not
> materialized (at least to my knowledge, but I might have missed that while
> in transit from California back to Canada). My recent notion of "The 2's
> Complement Cookbook" (hardcopy @US$100 ea. proposed, procedes to
> the F21 program) has resulted in some good feedback, but I can see that it
> will be a long haul in getting the readership to actually cough up the
> dough.
> For that matter, I have no idea what the real demographics of the MISC
> readership is *or whether or not such activities are welcome in your's and
> Chuck's view*. I believe it should be an outright gift with no strings
> attached in the understanding that F21(e?) *might not be the last stepping
> required*. On the other hand, I hope that you and Chuck are willing to put
> a capper on high-risk experiments and consolidate your hard-won
> experience into producing a definitive version. Personally, I am more
> interested in an F21 version that simply provides the basic CPU core, boot
> ROM, (S?)DRAM, and demuxed bus interface than F21d's multimedia
> peripheral suite, but I also understand that the settop box market is what
> you have been going for. It still might be worth considering as a stepping
> stone and cash cow to release a lower-integration version if an unqualified
> success in the resulting silicon would result. I am not a well-heeled
> philanthropist and despite my genuine wish to see the F21 emerge as a
> winner, I just can't bring myself to spend US$750 on a sample of F21d with
> it's known (and unknown) problems. As an experienced chip designer
> myself, I know damn well that it is possible to "get it right the 1st time"
> at
> least in a pure digital design by respecting silicon process limitations
> and
> doing things "by the book". At any rate, I hope that you and Chuck are
> either in the home stretch with the full concept OR are tempted to start
> making some money in the short-term with a more "conservative"
> implementation.
>
> The F21/Machine Forth concept is an extremely valuable alternative to
> current industry trends. Money is needed to bring it to fruition. This
> would need to be done in such a way that Jeff and Chuck retained full
> control of their baby, i.e. donations, not buying shares.
>
> My question to Jeff and Chuck is: Do you want guys like me embarking on
> fund-raising activities and other donations of effort in the first place?
> This is really the crucial question. There is no point in any of us
> performing in the capacity of a "ladies auxiliary" if the efforts are not
> welcome. As a rule, I suspect the motives of busybodies and don't get
> involved in commitees and such, but I am willing to do so if it contributes
> to being able to buy fully-operational silicon from UltraTechnology.
>
> My question to the MISC list is: How many of you would actually kick in
> some cash in support of fund-raising, how much, and for what deliverables?
>
> Let's be honest and see what (if anything) can be done. If the outcome is
> negative, I'll stay out of it and mind my own business (of which I have
> plenty) from now on and simply stay tuned for further developments. One
> way  or the other, I want to and ultimately will build a stack computer. I
> would rather it were F21-based for various reasons.

I fully second your concerns and questions.

I've long expressed to both Dr. Ting and Jeff my interest in the x21 chips as
possible platforms for a series of educational products that I've sketched out.
But my understanding in both cases is that neither chip has quite reached full
production status. This created somewhat of a chicken-egg problem since, in my
case, at least, as basically a software guy, I need a fairly sexy and
functional hardware prototype and assurances that the chips are available in
sufficient quantity to approach the money sources to which I have access.

I haven't talked with Jeff for some months, so I don't know how he has
progressed. But my understanding the last time we corresponded was that there
were a few issues beyond the technical clouding forward progress of the F21. I
certainly hope things have changed for the better. I'm certainly looking
forward to catching up with Jeff again when I can get my head above my current
project.

Like you, I'm certainly not in a position to buy a $750.00 chip. Cost
withstanding, I just don't have time to wire it up and bring up enough software
to show it around. If it was wired up on a prototype board with a working web
browser, on the other hand, and I knew that fully functional chips would be
available in the right quantity at the right price when we needed them, then
$750 would be far more doable. I would certainly purchase the 2's Complement
Cookbook in a minute, however, if I thought it was going to help Jeff bring the
F21 to full commercial status.

I did look closely at the P21 for one application that I have in mind, but
unfortunately the video was a bit too unstable and limited for my needs. It
seemed at the time that adding additional video hardware would defeat the
purpose of my application so I got buried under another project before I could
see a creative work-around.

So, if a "ladies auxiliary" could make the difference in bringing one or the
other or both of these chips to full fruition, defined in my case as
functioning prototype boards and the credible promise of chips in production
quantities at production prices within a reasonable timeframe, count me in. I
would very much like to see Dr. Ting and Jeff reap reward for their incredible
efforts. But I do agree that there needs to be affirmation and additional
leadership from Jeff and/or Dr. Ting to make it happen.

On the other hand, I'd fully understand if either or both were to say "enough
is enough."

Best wishes,

Lloyd R. Prentice

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